? about heel drop and calf soreness
Have any of you switched to lower drop running shoes? I can’t believe how much of a difference I have noticed from my old style Saucony versus the new lower heel drop platform. I really don’t know what the delta was on my old shoes but these 8mm are SO different for my weaker leg. I can’t get over how sore they make my calf. The good side is fine but whoa, Nelly, the left side gets tired and sore! I’ve had to reduce my mileage but I’m hoping these will help strengthen my ATR side. Anyone else experience something similar or am I just plain out of shape?
April 11th, 2014 at 11:58 pm
Do you mean like the Skechers with the rounded-off heels? They’re sold for (barefoot-like) walking, not running, but they sure do have a low heel drop. And when you’re first getting used to them, you can fall on your bum if you don’t pay attention! But they do work your calves more than most shoes, walking.
At your stage of recovery, I’m guessing that you can push your weak side pretty hard without doing harm. I’d use the standard weight-lifter or body-builder rules of thumb: If you’re not sore the next day, add some resistance. And if you’re sore in TWO days, take off some.
April 12th, 2014 at 12:32 am
Hi Norm! Actually, I’m just talking about running shoes. I did some looking around and I think with the barefoot/low profile trend, Saucony lowered the heel/toe differential several millimeters. I am just kind of surprised at how much of a difference this makes on my ATR calf. I thought my calf was pretty much up to speed. Honestly, I haven’t been running very much these last several years so when my old shoes gave me a big black toe nail, I bought a newer version not realizing that the platform had changed. It’s all good and I”m working through it but was wondering if any one else had experienced this. Probably just me with my ancient running shoes
April 12th, 2014 at 4:40 pm
One of my fave books about skiing technique - Witherell’s How the Racers Ski - claims that one big change in ski-binding design inadvertently changed the angle of everybody’s boots (& body) to their skis, without anybody telling us! Suddenly skiers who’d always been in good balance found themselves “in the back seat using the same boots and footbeds! A few degrees can definitely make a big difference to your skiing.
April 13th, 2014 at 4:09 pm
Kelly, heeldrop is an issue when recovering calf strength.
I considered for a long time to wipe the dust of my old spiked track and field shoes in order to revive my halting gastroc. But I never did due to persistent ankle pains and then snow.
Instead, as per PT advice, I ran short intervals (<1min) on a treadmill, shoeless, at 5% incline (I did not have ankle pain when running uphill - long story) It certainly gave my calfs, gastroc in particular, a heavy workout.
If running is your thing, I am convinced running with low-drop, or even barefoot, would do wonders for developing your calf.
But I would be very careful with mileage. Especially if you do zero-drop or barefoot, a set of short intervals per week is propbably about enough.
April 13th, 2014 at 4:26 pm
Barefoot running is a new trend. for those who finds barefoot a bit extreme, there are now a range of running shoes that try to mimic a ‘barefoot stride’. the vibram five fingers are probably the most extreme, and the first ones on the market to really hit this segment.
Now, many general producers are following suit, reducing heel drop and creating shoes that are less likely to interfere with what some people think is a natural stride.
Some low-drop running shoes are great, like the Merrell Ascend. Some are probably less great. My PT believes low-drop shoes are a great way to develop your calf and avoid ‘healing long’.
But if you are not used to running barefoot or with low-drop, you better be careful not to get injured!
April 13th, 2014 at 10:38 pm
@Norm: You read about skiing too? The only thing I ever read that is related to skiing is the snow report. Good to know that my observations might be legit after all
@Tord: Thanks for chiming in on this too. I attribute part of my ATR to the flat skateboard shoes I was wearing when I tore my achilles–that and being too old to be on a skateboard! I’m also really glad to hear that the lower drop can help with calf building. I’m definitely hoping to get some of the mass back in the ATR calf. Running really isn’t my thing anymore but I’m doing the minimum just to build that gastroc. I doubt I’d ever go really minimal–8mm is good enough for this girl! Thanks!
April 15th, 2014 at 3:29 pm
Tord - Barefoot running or even low drop shoes are not for everyone and this is something admitted by Vibram. If you have a tendancy to roll in then these shoes offer little support and as a consequence there is extra pressure on your planta fascia tendon which then relates to your AT. To run in these shoes you also have to modify your stride while running so you land on the ball of your foot. The heel does not impact on the ground. This will indeed give your gastroc more of a work out. They may suit many runners but I would suggest talking to a foot expert before trying. Regarding the gastroc work out without running (or high impact) or endless hours at the gym, simply find some stairs to walk and lead with the ball of your foot. Good also for the quads and heart as well plus you get fresh air and scenery depending on the place you live.
April 15th, 2014 at 4:56 pm
@Stuart:
Hard to disagree with that
Barefoot running surely isn’t for everyone, however, my PT’s point, which I think is still valid, is that low-drop shoes - or barefoot running - can be one of several ways to exercise your calf and foot. But that doesn’t mean you should use such shoes all the time. we were counting the time used in such shoes in minutes per week for a reason!
If it works well, you can probably opt to increase mileage, but it is probably not of much use if things already work out OK.
For the record, I used to do track running in high school, so my legs are probably well used to low-drop shoes. My track shoes actually has a drop from toeball to heel, rather than the other way around.
@Kelly:
Low drop in moderaton is at least great! however, as Stuart mentions above, stairs are also excellent for working your calfs, especially if you make sure to place only the ball of the foot on the step.
I have mentioned many other things one can do as well, other places on this forum. They include:
one legged sprints on a rowing machine
one legged strength training on a spinning bike
walking stairs with only your toe-ball on the step
Running short uphill intervals/sprints - with or without shoes
Do uphill intervals with crutches - NWB on the GOOD leg. (a hell of a upper-body workout too!)
Have a skipping rope in the office, use it a few minutes every hour.
Do dynamic balance exercises that includes bending and straghtening the knee.
All that being said, I would not worry much about bulk. As stated before, when I suspended heel-raises due to another injury, and focussed only on balance, my calf shrank, but strength increased. wierd. Bulk is useless as a measure, unless you’re a bodybuilder…
April 15th, 2014 at 6:45 pm
Just a word of warning to echo Stuart.
I am a pronator and normally run in the “motion stability” type shoes with higher heel raises. I experimented with low drop shoes around two years ago, Saucony Kinveras, and it didn’t go well.
I jumped right into running 3-4 miles 2-4 times a week in them and was raving about how strong it was making my calves feel and how great the burn was. After around 2 weeks, I had major plantar fascitis to the point where I found it hard to walk first thing in the morning. That took around 9 months to fully go away after wearing splints at night, cortisone shots and not running at all. I think if you gradually build into them you can have better results, but the PF was so debilitating and painful for months that I’m never wearing a pair again.
On a side note, it is a little coincidental that I tore my ACL around two years later. I believe that after my Planta Fascitis bout I had lingering Achilles soreness/mild tendonitis that perhaps weakened the tendons…
So, it could be that my three weeks of drop heel running has led to 9 months of recovery from PF and now 6-12 months of recovery from an ATR… definitely the worst experiment I’ve ever done!
April 15th, 2014 at 7:29 pm
Hi Kellygirl
And to echo smick! I lived in Merrills Eagle boots for the 2 years prior to the ATR. Lower limbs always ached at the end of a day. Looking at the boots post event realised that they are flat - no heel to speak of. Suspect prolonged use led to a weakoning of the tendons. Now this is not as scientific as Norm would like, but its influenced me! I’m a confirmed heels man!
Hoppy
April 15th, 2014 at 9:47 pm
@Stuart: Thanks for the cautions. I’m not much of a runner these days but I have noticed that it feels more natural to get a mid-forefoot strike in these new shoes. I think that’s what has been making my ATR calf tired. I was definitely more a heel striker. There are no lower drop shoes in my future and these are still stability shoes–just on an overhauled platform. I’ve been taking it slow and keeping the mileage low. Thanks for the reminder to take the stairs too
@Tord: Thanks again. Moderation is my middle name. Great list of activities to build the calf. I’ve been doing the hills and the balance work. For the most part, it has paid off in terms of strength–now I’m working on mass. I would like some semblance of symmetry at some point in the not so distant future:)
@Smick: Thanks for sharing your experience. No Kinervas for me! Yikes. I will definitely not be repeating your experiment. Gosh, what a nightmare!
@Hopalong: You and me both. Flats in moderation. Heels for the win!
April 16th, 2014 at 4:54 am
//So, it could be that my three weeks of drop heel running has led to 9 months of recovery from PF and now 6-12 months of recovery from an ATR… definitely the worst experiment I’ve ever done!//
- Ouch! So sorry to hear, Smick. It is also a reminder to myself. It seems like I often forget the wisdom of my track and field coach when I try to give advice:
1. Have many different pairs of shoes, and rotate continuously.
2. Barefoot running is great. On grass. Slow. After other exercise. And only then.
3. Zero-drop shoes such as spikes are only to be used in competitions and for short intervals and sprints. I.e. once a week, high intensity, short mileage.
I blame my ATR on two factors:
1. Genetics. We have plenty of ATR’s on both my mother and my father side.
2. When I took up running again, I got lazy from the above priniciples, and stayed with the same shoe model for years. And then I played football on a rubbery surface with a different model of jogging shoes. 45 minutes of play and rrrrriiitch (no pop)….
April 23rd, 2014 at 1:52 pm
Hi Kelly, I had made the transition to zero drop trainers a few years before my recent ATR and I do want to get back to them one day. I was wearing vibrams and merrell vapors for a while. They’re especially useful in dynamic plyometric type exercise. The first 3 months of wearing them to run in definitely made my calves really really sore until they strengthened up but they did adapt. I’m not going to go back to wearing them for a few years because it is definitely a big transition that needs to be taken slow. Coming off the ATR I’m going to be wearing nike free trainers to allow for enough structure for an insert or heel raise but still have some flexibility to allow the muscles in my feet and lower legs to gain strength through natural movement. There’s still a significant heel raise in those types of shoes so I hope they’ll be ok.
April 23rd, 2014 at 3:14 pm
@Tord: Thanks for the great advice. I really never thought about rotating shoes–except for every day shoes. I’m one of those people who has worn the same running model shoe year in and out–the only rotation going on had been in terms of color. As far as barefoot running goes–only if I’m getting chased by a dog on the beach. Pretty sure zero drop is not for this old girl.
Interesting about the genetics. I’m the first that I know of to have suffered an ATR. I guess I will have to warn my kids
@Roark: Thanks for sharing. Someone else around here swore by the Nike Frees post ATR. She was a big runner (unlike me.) I’ve noticed that I am getting used to my lower drop shoes. I think there is still a significant heel compared to the truly “minimal” style shoes out there so while they require an adjustment, they are not stressing my achilles all that much.
May 1st, 2014 at 12:40 pm
By the way, I do love that delayed onset muscle soreness feeling. To me it means getting stronger. When it shows up 2 days after a workout, that generally means you worked it hard enough to stimulate muscle growth. Immediate soreness is usually just lactic acid buildup.